Author Topic: An opinion on a few things.  (Read 31173 times)

Moonwalker

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2009, 07:21:53 AM »
Doesn't look too good for any program...

Because of the low budget. I think that a budget increase is the most likely outcome when Obama gets the final Augustine review. Neither NASA, nor the US government, have the goal to have no launcher available and give up the leading role of manned space flight achievements.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 07:23:25 AM by Moonwalker »

bjbeard

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2009, 07:28:18 AM »
That is just atrocious. Thinking that commercial sources will take up the slack is just this side of fantasy. Space-X is the only commercial viable system that I have read about, as Scaled Composites designs are all sub-orbital. Orbital is having problems, and someone in Obama's administration wants to man-rate Atlas and Delta IV! I don't see that happening due to the acceleration of both systems.

Let's face it, we are among a dwindling minority. No one wants to go anymore, nor do they want to use any tax dollars to do it. Corporate backed systems are non-existent and will remain that way for at least a generation or two.

I seriously do not see Constellation continuing, Obama wants his Cash 4 Clunkers, and universal healthcare plans too bad. For those living in other countries, it will soon be up to you to continue space exploration. The US is fast becoming the Portugal of the Space Age. Portugal began the exploration of the Western Hemisphere, but due to internal turmoil, lost their position of preeminence in colonizing it.

Now 510+ years later, the United States is giving up the lead. If we wont head it, I hope Europe does. Japan is my second choice, I really don't want to see China be the leaders of the 21st century of space exploration.

But I fear they will be.

Moonwalker

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2009, 02:31:31 AM »
Don't be so naive to think that the US government would give up its leading role in space achievements ;)

The Shuttle retirement + the ISS retirement will add more money to Constellation, no matter they continue Ares or chose another booster. And an additional budget increase is not yet ruled out at all. Remember that the Augustine Commission has not the assignment to make NASA out of the business. It has just the assignment to review the whole situation. To say that everything is in order would be quite unwise. Saying that NASA won't go anywhere with the current budget is the best way if they want to get money.

My cents are still on a budget increase and a continuation of the Ares development. Don't forget that for the first time since decades a new launch system is standing within the VAB at the Kennedy Space Center, almost as tall as the SaturnV moon rocket, and nearly ready for rollout and test-launch...

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/378860main_2009-4672_full.jpg

That the government would call a stop seems quite unlikely to me. No matter all the speculation going on within the web.

RMS Driver

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2009, 03:59:59 AM »
Wow, that is tall! :o
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bradleyjs

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2009, 05:14:43 AM »
Well anyway, if the shuttle program is gearing down for retirement then why would they waste money on this?  curious...

Discovery to debut new OI-34 flight software and new operations
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/08/discovery-to-debut-new-oi-34-flight-software-and-new-operations/

« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 05:17:13 AM by bradleyjs »

davidrobinsonjr

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2009, 05:29:19 AM »
One would imagine they will keep testing and modifying right up to the last flight. Opportunities to test on this kind of vehicle won't come again for a long time. :)
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marvx

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2009, 10:32:07 AM »
Well anyway, if the shuttle program is gearing down for retirement then why would they waste money on this?  curious...

Discovery to debut new OI-34 flight software and new operations

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/08/discovery-to-debut-new-oi-34-flight-software-and-new-operations/



Wow nice find. Thnaks for sharing

/Marvx
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 07:02:50 PM by marvx »


Moonwalker

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2009, 02:07:54 PM »
Wow, that is tall! :o

Yes. It's an amazing sight. Can't wait to see it lifting off in about two month from now. But rollout should happen quite soon :)

Just compare Ares1 with the Space Shuttle stack...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Size_Comparison2.png


Well anyway, if the shuttle program is gearing down for retirement then why would they waste money on this?  curious...

Discovery to debut new OI-34 flight software and new operations
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/08/discovery-to-debut-new-oi-34-flight-software-and-new-operations/

I would not call it wasting money. Using the lunar rover on Apollo for example also was no waste of money, although it was known already that Apollo is facing and early cut. Otherwise you could also argue that anything of a program that ends sooner or later anyway, is a wast of money on the whole.

Anything that is done to gain experience and develope new stuff is not wasting money I think ;) And there are still about two years left for the Shuttle. I think it will fly until at least spring 2011.

bradleyjs

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2009, 02:54:12 AM »
Sure would be nice if they do fly to 2011.

And, BTW, thanks for the pic of the different vehicle sizes -- been wondering about that lately now that they recently (last Thurs) stacked the 1st test Ares vehicle.

bjbeard

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2009, 02:58:03 PM »
I would love the fly to the moon, and even in the Orion! Seriously though the US Government is doing exactly what my grandpappy told me not to do;

"Dont put all yer eggs in one basket."

This is what is happening. ISS budget should be on a different legern that NASA flight operations. That way the STS and Constellation could be maintained. This is the 21st Century damnit adn we should be MUCH further along in space exploration. Why cant NASA get a few hundred billion dollars? Christ thay gave over 800bn to WALL STREET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

WHy did they give all that cash to the same guys that got us into trouble in the first place???? At least NASA woudl have something to frikkin show for it!

Moonwalker

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2009, 10:12:33 PM »
ISS budget should be on a different legern that NASA flight operations. That way the STS and Constellation could be maintained.

STS and Constellation sadly can not be maintained in almost any circumstances. Constellation alone, including the lunar landing part, will cost way more than Apollo (in todays numbers) and ISS together. Even once STS and ISS are retired, the gained budget by far would not even be enough to return to the Moon any time soon. It just would contribute to the Ares1 developement and Orion flights in low earth orbit.

That is what the Augustine commission currently is concluding, that NASA is in a real trouble if we talk about budget. If NASA does not get a budget boost and/or changes to an alternative to Ares1 and AresV, they won't go anywhere beyond low earth orbit within at least the next 2 decades. Especially the AresV has no funding at all at present. The only thing NASA did on the AresV was a wind tunnel test using a small model. Ares1 has at least a chance to lift of in future. But for AresV it looks more than quite bad at present.

We can only wait what Obama/the congress will decide once the Augustine Commission has done its job...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 10:14:11 PM by Moonwalker »

bjbeard

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2009, 03:53:18 AM »
Well, why not boost all the stuff to orbit on shuttle and ELV and construct the TLI stage there. No need for the Aries V.

RMS Driver

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2009, 10:29:54 AM »
The problem with the Shuttle is that it is old, and with all old things, NASA is having a hard tome finding spare parts for it. Basically all the companies that built the Shuttle are no longer in business, and it would cost NASA a fortune to custom make the parts.

IIRC, some of the propellant tanks in the Shuttle are already years past their designed lifetime, and with every flight the Shuttle flies, the greater the chance the tanks will rupture or explode.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Atlantis#Aging
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Chris

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2009, 02:56:57 PM »
The problem with the Shuttle is that it is old, and with all old things, NASA is having a hard tome finding spare parts for it. Basically all the companies that built the Shuttle are no longer in business, and it would cost NASA a fortune to custom make the parts.

IIRC, some of the propellant tanks in the Shuttle are already years past their designed lifetime, and with every flight the Shuttle flies, the greater the chance the tanks will rupture or explode.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Atlantis#Aging

Not all is bad though when discussing spare parts: a good example for initial manufacturing STS costs is the switch guards. The titanium alloy originals cost US$800 apiece, while a currently-manufactured identical set, CNC-ed from Aviation-Grade Aluminum costs less than 10% - @$50 apiece.

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bradleyjs

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Re: An opinion on a few things.
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2009, 02:26:37 AM »
I believe that RMS Driver's point is quite valid. When I used to work in the Shuttle program (specificially the Shuttle Depot for repair) we had a dandy of a time to get OEM parts and some parts we just made ourselves (being Rockwell Int'l and all)... And sometimes just had to re-contract another business to recreate the part(s) to spec.