Author Topic: Ares 1X  (Read 85331 times)

FAAmecanic

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2009, 07:58:35 AM »
LOL Greggy_D..... how true.

Admin

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2009, 01:18:13 PM »
I just find it humorous when people say "What does spending billions on space programs give us" when arguing.


I always reply, "That damn computer you just typed your post on."   ;D

Yep - fully agree: there are so many "trivial" technologies, materials, processes and discoveries that Space Exploration gave us, that we use on a daily base without giving a second thought.

IMHO, Space Exploration, international or not, is billions or trillions well-spent.

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bradleyjs

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2009, 03:33:01 AM »
I firmly agree!

Just imagine everything that we've learned over the years...

marvx

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2010, 12:21:32 AM »
And herre goes the last fill year of the STS Program

:-(

/Marvx


Greggy_D

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2010, 01:41:40 AM »
I have a feeling it is going to be extended.

bradleyjs

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2010, 07:03:05 AM »
Would be nice - but I certainly have my doubts....

What really bothers me, is all of the workforce that supports the STS could be out a job,,,

But, this is the way things go...

Huron_Serenity

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2010, 08:02:15 AM »
I have a feeling it is going to be extended.

Don't count on it. The production line for the external tank is closed down. According to Wayne Hale, it would take three years to get it running again. Not to mention all the other suppliers that have closed up or moved on to the Constellation Program.

It can be extended for one extra mission, since there is a spare external tank. Missions may be delayed till sometime in early 2011, but after that we'll just have to wait for Orion or Dragon.

In any case, all we have to look forward to, when it comes to human spaceflight, for the next 6-8 years are ISS crew rotation flights.



"It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness."

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2010, 02:12:49 PM »
Would be nice - but I certainly have my doubts....

What really bothers me, is all of the workforce that supports the STS could be out a job,,,

But, this is the way things go...

Not "all" the workforce. Rather a small part, as many of it has already been assigned to other projects. Of course there will be some early retirees and some job losses, but not at a nation or state level disaster scale.

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Moonwalker

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #98 on: January 01, 2010, 10:06:35 PM »
I don't think the program will be extended. It is going to be delayed, as delays are usual for the Shuttle program. But they won't add any extra mission for sure. The retirement is more than a done deal for some years already. The only hope that sometimes arises comes from web articels but not from NASA or responsible persons. The ET production has been mentioned already. But also flight planning and training branches have done their work so far. There won't be any new or extra mission. And it is highly unlikely the government i.e. its consultants for manned space flight would advice to roll back the hole thing just for an extra mission. NASA follows a straight line although the money question for Ares still is uncertain. But the Shuttle retirement is more than certain.

I think that NASA will get some more money to get Orion into orbit not to soon before ISS retirement. But I think the gap and waiting really will be worth it, like the gap between Apollo and STS was worth it as well (which was 6 years!). We've seen Ares 1-X which was an amazing launch. Just imagine Orion on top of the finished Ares 1 launching into orbit to meet and rendezvous with the lunar module either in low earth orbit or in moon orbit (whatever NASA decides how to insert to the moon...). But even a manned Ares 1 launch alone will be breathtaking. The future offers much more when operating Orion rather than operating the Shuttle. Orion i.e. capsule desigen generally offers any capabilities beyond low earth orbit which STS did not. We can count on it, but we have to be rather patient first ;)

We'll be older, wiser and we'll have a great and almost finished SSM simulation once Orion lifts off ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 10:10:44 PM by Moonwalker »

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Moonwalker

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2010, 04:24:11 AM »
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/12/nasa-direction-extra-shuttle-flights-commerical-launcher/

Sadly that's once again not something officially and lots of speculation. Until NASA does not decide and officially announce something, the program ends by STS-133 as planned or STS-135 at the very latest. But there is only five missions left. The more time lapses away the more unlikely an extension will be. The final year is running already...

spaceboy7441

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #101 on: January 02, 2010, 06:10:04 AM »
This was just released a few min ago. It is about the future vehicle options and the extension of the shuttle. I would highly advise it be read. I feel maybe we could split this thread into like a shuttle extension thread and a Future NASA type thread or something  :)

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/01/battle-of-the-heavy-lift-launchers-monster-200mt-vehicle-noted/
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gablau

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2010, 08:47:54 AM »
I just find it humorous when people say "What does spending billions on space programs give us" when arguing.


I always reply, "That damn computer you just typed your post on."   ;D

Yep - fully agree: there are so many "trivial" technologies, materials, processes and discoveries that Space Exploration gave us, that we use on a daily base without giving a second thought.

IMHO, Space Exploration, international or not, is billions or trillions well-spent.

/Admin

I just don't understand one thing. If the Russians could somehow save the Soyuz, how come USA didn't save anything.

Moonwalker

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2010, 11:03:25 AM »
I just don't understand one thing. If the Russians could somehow save the Soyuz, how come USA didn't save anything.

Well, Soyuz is a real workhorse plus more reliable and favourable than any other manned system ever build and operated until today. Soyuz will be updated (as usual) and might even fly to the moon in future.

The Shuttle eats up a lot of money and man power. It is highly costly and high-maintenance. And it's a 100% low earth orbit system. Like former NASA Admin Michael Griffin said: the Shuttle was not the right path. If you want to get out of orbit or if you want a manned system that can be updated without changing the infrastructure and eating up tons of extra budget, the Shuttle really is around the neck of NASA.

The reason why NASA did not save any system for now is that NASA never developed a cheap and reliable system for the wide future comparable to Soyuz. Mercury and Gemini just was short-term programs to gain knowledge, learn how to live, navigate and rendevous in space in preparation of Apollo. And Apollo also just was a short-term program. It was made for a big show of landing on the moon manned to beat the Russians in arms race finally. Apollo really wolfed NASA and a lot of US money and man power. The Saturn V was a money-hungry beast. Its small sister, the Saturn 1B, also wasn't cheap at all. It was launched only 9 times. It was just another expensive rocket actually nobody was interested in after Apollo. And Skylab just marked the end of a great era. That space station was made up of Apollo remains due to dramatic budget cuts. It was just to fill the gap between Apollo and the Shuttle if you will. Actually NASA planned to use Skylab along with the Shuttle program. But due to the Shuttle program delays they had to abandon Skylab, after they noticed that it got out of control once they powered the station up again after some time in orbit. History does not repeat, but it is similar quite often ;)

STS initially was believed to be a robust and profit making design for a bright and shiny future. At the end the only bright and shiny future was for example Hubble and the ISS beside a few other missions. But STS-51L and STS-107 really casted a dark shadow on the program, while STS-107 was the beginning of the end. The Shuttle did never become what it was intended to become, but still it reamins the pinnacle of space flight engineering and the most awesome flying machine humans have ever build until today.

That's what NASA did not manage until today: to build a reliable and cheap system. That's when Russia comes into play. Russia often gets underestimated a lot anyway. Although that country had been driven by turbulent political events within the last centuries and did not have a good press in our believed "objective" press, they did some very impressive technologies and programs. They did not land on the moon manned, but they've build Buran which could even fly unmanned (and had a much higher payload capability than the US Shuttle). But sadly the program suffered from the breakdown of the Soviet Union. They build the most powerful rocket in the world until today: the N1 moon rocket (no, the Saturn V was not the most powerful rocket ever build as often called wrongly; it was the most powerful rocket that reached operational status). They've build the biggest airplane which still flies and holds the record: the Antonov 225 (it is biggher than the Airbus A380 in both, size and weight). Russia build the biggest artificial object in space in the 1980's: the Mir station. Russia has had much more experience in manned long term missions than NASA had when they started to build the ISS together. And last but not least: Soyuz, which operates for decades very very reliably without any losses. Just like ESA astronaut Thomas Reiter said: you can ride on it with closed eyes and fully trust on it. Some Russian technology really is robust and reliable. The Antonov 225 and Soyuz are the still living examples. And they're catching up with Airbus in civil aviation meanwhile (fly-by-wire, cockpit systems similar to Airbus cockpit systems etc.) and so beat Boeing technologically.

Soyuz is that much reliable and cheap that ESA has bought it and will launch it (unmanned) from Kourou, French Guyana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiana_Space_Centre#ELS_.2F_Soyuz_at_CSG

Well, to talk about the future of manned US flights: Orion really could become a manned NASA vehicle for the wide future for the first time. They only have to get a reliable and cheap launcher working...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 11:10:01 AM by Moonwalker »

Moonwalker

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Re: Ares 1X
« Reply #104 on: January 02, 2010, 11:07:39 AM »
To talk about the future of STS again:

not that I want to destroy hopes or contradict web articles, news and speculation, but to say like it is: NASA did not request the extra money the House and Senate leaders agreed to authorize in early 2009 ($2.5 billion) if an extension should be necessary to complete the currently planned missions to the ISS. For a general extension there is no room anyway.

Until today the NASA management does not seem to be interested in keeping the Shuttle's flying at all. Unless Obama says anything different, which is actually not his decision anway, the current course of retirement is a final one at about 99% if there is not a miracle to happen.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 11:19:04 AM by Moonwalker »