Community
On Orbit => Space Shuttle Mission Simulator (tm) => Topic started by: njcrebels63 on April 23, 2010, 10:04:25 AM
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what is it gonna happen to this game after they retire the shuttle.. is it going to fictional now or what?? just a wonder?
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ssm2010 is comming as the shuttle is already retired so it will just go on to sim sts missions from the past and the latest flights
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We still have a lot of things to add to the sim: features, missions, etc. If it's only up to us, this sim will have a very long life :)
/Admin
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Thats what we like to hear Admin :) :) :)
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thats good but it will be sad for shuttle to retire it wont be the same :'( :'(
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thats good but it will be sad for shuttle to retire it wont be the same :'( :'(
I agree, but that's another matter. At least WE shall keep the Shuttle flying, albeit, in a virtual Space :)
/Admin
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amen to that! ;D
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Soyuz simulation as a part of the ISS project...will be fun to have some expeditions on the sim ...any way the Soyuz and the space shuttle are related one to the another since they both flight to the ISS..
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I don't see a last mission for us for a long time..
Richard R
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If not by SSM, the Space Shuttle will continue to exist on computers by other simulations for decades I think. But I guess SSM already will last VERY long :)
It's sad that I did not witness one of the greatest eras of manned space exploration: Apollo. But I'm very glad and actually thankful that I've got the chance to at least witness the Shuttle program from beginning to end, although I was just two years old when STS-1 lifted off. But I remember being interested in it already when I was in elementary school in the mid 1980's, initiated by the accident of Challenger. I remember the broadcast on TV as if it was yesterday. Being thankful to be a witness of that great era of space flight, I'm also thankful for SSM as it will keep up great memories.
But what I'm often asking myself is: what would happen in about 100 or maybe 500 years? Life is rather short. I wonder if humans will still be interested in "old" stuff like the Shuttle, or just watch the remains in museums but not knowing a lot of it beside just a few historians will do. But by that time, I think almost everybody will be able to take a cheap ticket for space planes, that take you from New York to Tokio in no time on a suborbital flight, whilst having a small snack and experiencing zero-g for some 20 to 30 minutes before landing ;) I'm confident that subsonic, "low" atmospheric passenger flight will become obsolete in the long term... Concorde was just the first small step, which appeared prematurely.
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If not by SSM, the Space Shuttle will continue to exist on computers by other simulations for decades I think. But I guess SSM already will last VERY long :)
It's sad that I did not witness one of the greatest eras of manned space exploration: Apollo. But I'm very glad and actually thankful that I've got the chance to at least witness the Shuttle program from beginning to end, although I was just two years old when STS-1 lifted off. But I remember being interested in it already when I was in elementary school in the mid 1980's, initiated by the accident of Challenger. I remember the broadcast on TV as if it was yesterday. Being thankful to be a witness of that great era of space flight, I'm also thankful for SSM as it will keep up great memories.
But what I'm often asking myself is: what would happen in about 100 or maybe 500 years? Life is rather short. I wonder if humans will still be interested in "old" stuff like the Shuttle, or just watch the remains in museums but not knowing a lot of it beside just a few historians will do. But by that time, I think almost everybody will be able to take a cheap ticket for space planes, that take you from New York to Tokio in no time on a suborbital flight, whilst having a small snack and experiencing zero-g for some 20 to 30 minutes before landing ;) I'm confident that subsonic, "low" atmospheric passenger flight will become obsolete in the long term... Concorde was just the first small step, which appeared prematurely.
In 100 years, first graders will looking at the Shuttle the same way we look at a Ford-T. In 500 years, first graders would be looking at the Shuttle the same way we look at Kon-Tiki and Ra at the Kon-Tiki Museum in Bygdø, Oslo. :)
/Admin
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In 100 years, first graders will looking at the Shuttle the same way we look at a Ford-T. In 500 years, first graders would be looking at the Shuttle the same way we look at Kon-Tiki and Ra at the Kon-Tiki Museum in Bygdø, Oslo. :)
I think so as well :) But one thing is or will be amazing: todays movies and photos probably won't look old. At least it won't look as old as stuff and photos that existed before manned space flight and the post war economic boom. At some point, things won't look much different anymore. Take the Apollo Spacecraft and Orion as an example. The Apollo Spacecraft is nearly half a century old. And it still looks cool and modern, and not much different to Orion anyway. It probably won't ever look old. And I think that the Space Shuttle also won't look old. Design has its limits, especially due to physical laws that don't change. What will become old is the technology inside, and of course the historic dates of usage.
(http://www.dimensionsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Apollo.jpg)
(http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn11066/dn11066-1_700.jpg)
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Well put it this way if a Simulation of the apollo missions came out with the same quality as SSM2007 would you buy it? I willing to bet you would and I think it will be the same with the shuttle sim.
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In 100 years, first graders will looking at the Shuttle the same way we look at a Ford-T. In 500 years, first graders would be looking at the Shuttle the same way we look at Kon-Tiki and Ra at the Kon-Tiki Museum in Bygdø, Oslo. :) /Admin
I seriously doubt that. In hundred years we will probably have got on Mars and even established a base there thats about as far as we will be I think. The obstacles both technological and financial to getting this far will be substantial and I wouldnt be at all surprised if it isnt a very similar spacecraft that actually goes to Mars in the end. Its been 50 years since we were on the moon and we havent been back yet. 100 years is nothing. We may always discover shortly something mind blowing like warp travel or antigravity but I seriously doubt it! Otherwise we wont be going very far for a long long time.
Looking further afield either there will be something that leads us to push towards space exploration (global warming etc), or something that will mean we have no interest in space exploration (war or the ongoing/a new financial crash). Either one of these will have large repercussions for the future of our race, one could almost say that with fiances the way they are presently any space exploration at all is very unlikely over the next hundred years as it waill take that long to get back on our feet.
Either way I think there is a growing feeling amongst a lot of people that we are getting close to the knife edge of something new and that we cannot continue mulling along the way we have been in the past. We are getting too populated, too industrial, too polluted, too frustrated and angry with a lot of things, and far too greedy - the future is becoming very uncertain for human beings.
Personally I think we should definitely explore the Moon and Mars as it would provide something to strive for by the human race and we should always have something like that. I was just reading the history of NASA and that was one of the main things that came out of it - that the Moon race gave human kind something to focus on other than their petty day to day troubles. Space exploration brings people together and that is going to become more necessary than ever over the next few centuries I think.
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Seems like the shuttle has an extra mission left in 2011 so it will be around a while yet hehe.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/08/nasa-approve-sts-135-mission-june-28-2011-launch/
Will be good to see Atlantis fly 1 more time as this seems to be the ship of choice
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In hundred years we will probably have got on Mars and even established a base there thats about as far as we will be I think.
I am even more pessimistic than you are. In the 1960's the imagination of the people were set on fire about "the space" (as was mine). In reality and in comparison, "nothing" dramatic happened since the Moon landing. The exploration and usage of the Earth orbit was a "given", considering the existing rocket technology. Going further is a totally different story. There is a good reason that after half a century we didn't go back to the Moon. Because there is nothing there to go back for. Deep inside don't we really know exactly the same about the Mars? And the Mars is still a "next door neighbor" considering the distances and the amount of time to get there (near half a year). Colonizing either the Moon or the Mars is a nice sci-fi issue, but extremely far from any sane reality. The laws of physics will remain the same for 50 or 100 years, or any amount of time. Even the Space Shuttle and/or the Apollo was an almost "super-human" achievement. As is the ISS. Which now have what.....six people aboard, and still not completely ready after more than a decade. And the big "achievement" was that they finally fixed the toilette.
All that just a couple of hundred miles from the surface of our planet. The nearest next solar system is over four light years away and we don't even know whether it has any planet around it. The light, as we know, travels 300,000 km/sec. The Apollo didn't reach 20 km/sec. No entity we are aware of anywhere outside of our planet have a totally non-hostile biological environment to human beings. I was (and still am) awed what took place in my lifetime regarding space research, but I am afraid that only thing went faster than the speed of light, was our hopes and imagination.
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"nothing" dramatic happened since the Moon landing.
Technologically a lot did happen since then. The ASC technology (Apollo Spacecraft) was rather rudimentary compared to the technology of the Space Shuttle and ISS. We live in space continuously today.
There is a good reason that after half a century we didn't go back to the Moon. Because there is nothing there to go back for. Deep inside don't we really know exactly the same about the Mars?
No, we don't. Because from the geologically and astrophysically point of view, both, the Moon and Mars are top goals. We still don't know everything about the Moon, and less than ever about Mars.
And the Mars is still a "next door neighbor" considering the distances and the amount of time to get there (near half a year). Colonizing either the Moon or the Mars is a nice sci-fi issue, but extremely far from any sane reality.
In 1492, when Christopher Columbus discovered the North American continent (although he was not the first one), there were no motors, no cars, no airplanes, less than ever computers, heck, not even bikes. It took more than 500 years until average people were able to take a plane to fly from Europe to northern America in less than 8 hours. If you would have told people about it back then in 1492, be sure literally every person would have called you insane. Not to mention space flight or even a flight to the Moon. From a flat earth view and sailing ships, we've made it into space or low earth orbit by 28800 kilometers per hour. From Otto Lilienthal (http://www.glattpark.ch/grundlagen/infra_places/lilienth.jpg) it took nearly 100 years until we've had jet propulsion available. Space flight is only 50 years of age, and we already made it from Sputnik to the Moon manned over to a space station that houses twice as much as the Apollo spacecraft, well, continuously. Whilst the Shuttle is docked it houses more than 10 humans. Compared to Vostok and Mercury days, even to Apollo days, it's a giant leap only two and a half decades later (the last Apollo flight happened in 1975 and the ISS was being build on ground in the early and mid 1990's already).
Technological progess did never stop, nor slow. It is as fast as never before, especially computer technology. The difference just is that people are used to it meanwhile.
The laws of physics will remain the same for 50 or 100 years, or any amount of time.
Not inherently. In the early 1930's Albert Einstein for example was convinced that providing electricity by something like nuclear power (back then it was just a theory) is impossible because "you have to force atoms to do that". And, indeed, we forced them. He also was wrong about quantum physics (coincidences do exist indeed). Lord Kelvin, a British mathematician and physicist claimed in 1895 that "heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." Simon Newcomb, a Canadian mathematician and astronomer, said that "flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible." This was just 18 month before the Wright Brothers took off. Today we fly with aircraft made of metal, which are more than 400 tons of weight. And this with a speed of more than 800 kilometers per hour. Open up the graves of Lord Kelvin and Simon Newcomb to show them what's possible. But be sure they'll suffer a direct heart attack ;)
The nearest next solar system is over four light years away and we don't even know whether it has any planet around it.
Back in human history, foreign continents were unreachable, at least not within month, while the majority of humans thought that the earth must be a flat thing :)
The light, as we know, travels 300,000 km/sec. The Apollo didn't reach 20 km/sec.
Well, the first steam locomotives didn't even reach 50 km/h (0,014 km/s), and some scientists and doctors back then claimed the acceleration would be "too fast" for the human body...
By the way, in 1936 the New York Times wrote that "a rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere." ;D And only 32 years later a rocket put three men within their spacecraft on a course to the Monn for the first time (Apollo 8).
Keep two things in mind:
1. The future is not foreseeable
2. Most predictions (except predictions of visionaries like Wernher von Braun etc.) about the possibility of technologies and about the future, were always pretty much wrong
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And only 32 years later a rocket put three men within their spacecraft on a course to the Monn for the first time *(Apollo 8).
* Apollo 8
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Well said Moonwalker.
IMHO, the only thing that can keep us from reaching even more achievements in space and beyond, is the obviously self-destructing nature of the human race, either by pollution or wars, or both.
Sorry for the clouds.
/Admin
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Well said Moonwalker.
IMHO, the only thing that can keep us from reaching even more achievements in space and beyond, is the obviously self-destructing nature of the human race, either by pollution or wars, or both.
Sorry for the clouds.
It's not really that much dramatic. Imagine the horizon of European citizens but also American, Russian or Japanese citizens in summer 1945. I don't think that anybody thought about space flight during those days (not to mention commercial aviation, jet propulsion, supersonic flight etc.). Europe was literally done. The world had just witnessed the worst and biggest war of all times which ended even with usage of nuclear bombs. And only 12 years later Russia put Sputnik into orbit, followed by cosmonaut Gagarin and astronaut Shepard. The Moon was still very far away. But not even one ecade later and Apollo 8 was on it's way, during times when the world witnessed a cold war ;)
Yes, the biggest part of the world population is in a bad condition. I think only 20% of the world population can be called to be developed. But it doesn't stop us to fly to the Moon, build a big space station, design a passenger aircraft which can carry 800+ passengers and so on. Progress always continued. Compared to WWII, the developed world these days is facing peanuts. Even the biggest financial crisis didn't make us fall apart once again. The world has changed, and I think it became better rather than worse. People which are badly effected from pollution and war, as usual, are mostly people from third world and/or developing countries.
The only real issue I see in space flight is a lack of important and smart political decisions...
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As much as I'd want to buy into your optimism, the picture is not as rose as you paint it Moonwalker, at least on the global influence of conflict and pollution part. But I don't want to digress: this is a SSMS forum after all :)
Humans may yet reach Mars (and we may even reach a fifth or even tenth version of SSMS, LOL), but what kind of home will they be leaving behind, or find when they return?
Everything is accelerated today: science, knowledge, discovery but also conflict and pollution. We should be careful that the later do not overcome the former.
/Admin
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As much as I'd want to buy into your optimism, the picture is not as rose as you paint it Moonwalker, at least on the global influence of conflict and pollution part.
My picture actually isn't very rose but also not optimistic all along. Sorry for not saving bandwith but it's not explainable just by three sentences.
The earth never was and never will be a place of pur love and piece. Human nature is about love and war/greed because we are part of an animal world (and an insect as well as microorganism world) that just consists of the same attributes but with a different appearance and scale. Almost any form of life is driven by hunger and survival instinct. If other mammals, beside the human mammal species, would be equipped with brains which are able to create a consciousness and rational thought structure, they wouldn't act any different than we do. Because we are an example of what happens when mammals get a rational brain (which of course does not mean that everybody uses it rationally).
Compared to the hostile universe, the earth can be considered to be the Garden of Eden. But it's still not a perfect world, and it won't ever be. Regardless of starvation, greed, polllution and conflicts, our progress continues and doesn't prevent exploration to look for different places to live. Columbus discovered the northern American continent at a time when we had the plague, oppression and burning of a witches in Europe. We developed rocket technologies whilst up to 80 million humans lost their lifes during WWII. Back then the world population was about 2 billions and about 3 billions when we flew to the Moon during the Vietnam War. Today it's nearly 7 billions and the world still did not end, and it won't end.
Humans do learn a lot although it may not seem so at a first glance. Europe significantly changed during the last few hundred years, especially in the second half of the 20th century which influenced almost the entire human world. We learned politically, environmentally, socially and so on. Of course it's still a lot of work to be done. And we should not force developing countries to do it any faster than we did (especially China). If we look back in history and compare it with the present, the world didn't really become worse (although prophesies about the future always tell the most worst scenario, up until to day; caused by human fear). A lot of things that seem to be worse these days is made by media propaganda hugely. If you watch and read news 24 hours a day, you think the entire world is just bad, which is not the case. As German journalist Peter Scholl-Latour says (he literally has visited any country in his life, witnessed the Vietnam War etc...), everytime he visits a country or a region of conflicts, he needs about 2 days to acclimatize because of the nonsense published within our media compared to the different situation on site.
Humans may yet reach Mars (and we may even reach a fifth or even tenth version of SSMS, LOL), but what kind of home will they be leaving behind, or find when they return?
Just compare the Europe of the 15th Century (Columbus) and the Middle Ages with the Europe of today :) Who would want to go back seriously? ;) Or compare the 1960's (Apollo) with today politically. The Cold war is over and the enemy stereotype of evil Russia has gone. Today our enemy stereotype is evil China, once again created by media and politicians to fear whole nations. But luckily it doesn't work quite well anymore. People have got their on minds and the possibility of research via the internet.
Everything is accelerated today: science, knowledge, discovery but also conflict and pollution. We should be careful that the later do not overcome the former.
Yes. Whilst a lot of problems today are translocated actually. Parts of India, Africa, China and southern America are in ciritcal conditions without any doubt. But it does by far not mean the end of the world. There are a lot of places which are quite worthy living. Take Norway as an example. A wonderful landscape, only ~ 5 billions citizen, and about 98% of their electricity is comming from hydropower. Germany sadly still operates 17 nuclear power plants (compared to more than 50 in France) but the phase-out already is a done deal. They only argue about the date.
But I don't want to digress: this is a SSMS forum after all :)
Yes. Sorry that I already did digress hugely. After all, this game will keep running anyway once the Shuttle has been retired, and far beyond ;D
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Hey Moonwalker, just noticed: you've just posted your 600th message. This calls for a toast :)
/Admin
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Hey Moonwalker, just noticed: you've just posted your 600th message. This calls for a toast :)
LOL :) I didn't even notice it. I guess I write too much... ;D
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Write too much? You? That's just not possible! ;D
/Admin
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Optimistic group...I say we will be in WW3 or some other war Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan,Packastain,North Korea throw a stone pick one I say its some Muslim county see me in 100 years to collect payment. space may be the only escape
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Well put it this way if a Simulation of the apollo missions came out with the same quality as SSM2007 would you buy it? I willing to bet you would and I think it will be the same with the shuttle sim.
I have $75US set aside for just an eventuality. (Looks at Admin...intensely)
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Optimistic group...I say we will be in WW3 or some other war Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan,North Korea throw a stone pick one I say its some Muslim county see me in 100 years to collect payment. space may be the only escape
Sadly I agree with you. Wars make money and space waists it in the eyes of those in the Legislative and Executive branches of our government. Until something causes an fundamental shift in policy and direction, the US at least will not be returning to space. At least not anytime soon. I think my worst fear is coming true. The US is about to pull a Portugal...
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I have $75US set aside for just an eventuality. (Looks at Admin...intensely)
Nah, it will NOT cost anything near US$75, unless the US$ takes an unbearable dive - and I believe it won't!
/Admin
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Optimistic group...I say we will be in WW3 or some other war Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan,North Korea throw a stone pick one I say its some Muslim county see me in 100 years to collect payment. space may be the only escape
Sadly I agree with you. Wars make money and space waists it in the eyes of those in the Legislative and Executive branches of our government. Until something causes an fundamental shift in policy and direction, the US at least will not be returning to space. At least not anytime soon. I think my worst fear is coming true. The US is about to pull a Portugal...
The USA will continue to fly into space I think. But not as a big bloated NASA stand-alone program to cast just a few more footsteps and flags on the Moon once again. Space flight will look different in future. No big TV shows and job programs anymore but hopefully more true science and sustainability behind it.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
Albert Einstein
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I can tell you one thing now: after talking with a few NASA officials off the record, I am much more optimistic about the NASA manned Space exploration ;)
The near future IS exciting.
/Admin
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I can tell you one thing now: after talking with a few NASA officials off the record, I am much more optimistic about the NASA manned Space exploration ;)
The near future IS exciting.
You certainly don't mean the upcoming cuts of NASA's most sacred cow: the astronaut corps (by about 50%) once the Shuttle has been retired, because no more flying is going to happen for years ;)
Beside that STS might be extended until late 2011 which might be an exciting "near future", everything else regarding manned space flight is in limbo at NASA (i.e. no future yet).
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You certainly don't mean the upcoming cuts of NASA's most sacred cow: the astronaut corps (by about 50%) once the Shuttle has been retired, because no more flying is going to happen for years ;)
Beside that STS might be extended until late 2011 which might be an exciting "near future", everything else regarding manned space flight is in limbo at NASA (i.e. no future yet).
Nice try, but I can't tell more.
/Admin
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Well nice try also, but I'm not optimistic because there is nothing really more other than STS is going to be extended through 2011 (which was foreseeable, i.e is a usual NASA delay), and that the remaning 64 member astronaut corps (which once was more than 140 in 2000) and a lot of other things are going to be cut dramatically ;) NASA has selected 13 companies for potential contracts and for evaluating heavy-lift launch vehicle system concepts, but that's for the future. And this future is more than far away any rather uncertain yet. The White House is quite busy doing research on how to cut NASA at best, because the government currently suffers from other serious domestic political problems other than the question of NASA's future manned program (they don't really care at the moment).
There are always NASA officials who make advertising for NASA and try to make sound everything bloomy and harmonic. It's usual. They also did so even when Constellation was widely known to be as dead as possible (they even did send form letters to employees to try to encourage them which of course did not work).
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"Nice try"? I'm not trying anything - I'm reporting, not speculating. But go ahead. I have a feeling that you enjoy this "forecasting" game, especially since there are so many things that you don't actually know, while there are so many variables that change all the time.
I am bored again so I'm moving on.
/Admin
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You try to encourage people by saying that NASA officials have told you something which obviously makes you think that NASA has an exciting future :)
Just let me say that everything one knows from NASA employees is anything but exciting, and this for years already. Not to talk about the latest debates and decisions in Washington. So I'm just curious because you are really the only person I know of which says something optimistic. People who work for NASA and did work for NASA, sound way way different...
I don't forecast or speculate btw. I'm just telling what is happening and that NASA outwardly always tries to make sound everything way less worse than it actually is ;)
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Actually, in case you forgot I was the more pessimist one, remember? So no, I'm not trying to encourage anybody.
Enjoy the show.
/Admin
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I have $75US set aside for just an eventuality. (Looks at Admin...intensely)
Nah, it will NOT cost anything near US$75, unless the US$ takes an unbearable dive - and I believe it won't!
/Admin
Hey we are paying $50 to $60US for PS3, 360, Wii, or even most new PC or Mac games... So by the time you got around to the Apollo Mission Simulator, That should be about right...Especially after China sells their USD for Euros...
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Although I've had SSM since Day 1, as it is with life's time allowances, I'm still a newbie. I do have a question...
With the release of SSM2 slated for 3rd or 4th quarter 2011, are there any new updates, missions or features planned to be added to SSM 2007 in the meantime?
Thanks.
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Space shuttle forever ;) There is something romantic about our shuttles vs. a pod or capsule. Our virtual fleet will keep the old dream alive
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I dont see a great future for anything past SS2 myself. I find it difficult to imagine anything major that could be added into the present game to be honest, other than slightly better graphics and I cant really imagine buying a new game just for those unless they were remarkable.
I would however love to see a very good Apollo simulator and I would love to see you people do it as I think you would do it very well.
A mars explorer simulator ? - I struggle to see how that could be made all that interesting considering the length of the journey and the amount that would actually be done once they got there. And obviously its fantasy not simulation.
I suppose another thing that could be considered would be a moon habitat simulator but again its in the realms of fantasy at the moment and I get the impression you people dont wish to go there. I would think though that it could be done well with a bit of imagination.
But I think if you are wishing to concentrate only on manned space exploration similation you will find there are no kind of developments in this field over at least the next 10-20 years, everyone is just so skint now it will take years to get out of all this debt. Unmanned exploration is where it all is for the foreseeable future.
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I dont see a great future for anything past SS2 myself. I find it difficult to imagine anything major that could be added into the present game to be honest, other than slightly better graphics and I cant really imagine buying a new game just for those unless they were remarkable.
I would however love to see a very good Apollo simulator and I would love to see you people do it as I think you would do it very well.
A mars explorer simulator ? - I struggle to see how that could be made all that interesting considering the length of the journey and the amount that would actually be done once they got there. And obviously its fantasy not simulation.
I suppose another thing that could be considered would be a moon habitat simulator but again its in the realms of fantasy at the moment and I get the impression you people dont wish to go there. I would think though that it could be done well with a bit of imagination.
But I think if you are wishing to concentrate only on manned space exploration similation you will find there are no kind of developments in this field over at least the next 10-20 years, everyone is just so skint now it will take years to get out of all this debt. Unmanned exploration is where it all is for the foreseeable future.
We hope to surprise you ;)
/Admin
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I see us just as the Shuttle program was in the early 80s.A lot of missions to fly, and a lot of upgrades yet to come.
Richard R