Author Topic: The STS program may be extended by two more years...  (Read 53604 times)

schmidtrock

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2010, 01:40:01 AM »
Okay, private companies will always do better than government agencies, so why dosen't Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, United Technologies, SpaceX, General Dynamics, L3 Communications Holdings, Honeywell International, Parker Hannifin, Computer Sciences Corp, US branch of Thales Group, and SpaceDev all team up and buy out all of NASA, save the "space jobs" and make space flight cheaper than NASA as a government agency?

Greed.

Moonwalker

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2010, 03:12:09 AM »
Okay, private companies will always do better than government agencies, so why dosen't Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, United Technologies, SpaceX, General Dynamics, L3 Communications Holdings, Honeywell International, Parker Hannifin, Computer Sciences Corp, US branch of Thales Group, and SpaceDev all team up and buy out all of NASA, save the "space jobs" and make space flight cheaper than NASA as a government agency?

That is one of the basic issues which is being discussed in all levles for many years already, from the guy like me who just sits in front of his PC to simulate space stuff, up to real astronauts and engineers and highly ranked NASA/space flight persons who have a real clue.

NASA is in a deadlock already since Apollo. That program was amazing, yes, but also amazingly costly and just a temporaray political goal. STS also was an expensive deadlock behind the curtain of Spacelab, Hubble and ISS. It just lasted longer. It eats up resources and budget like hell due to NASAs structure. The only thing that saved the Shuttle program in the 1970s was the miscalculation and promise -> that the Shuttle would be still profitable (behind criticism back then) and fly "routinely" 600+ times until the end of the 1990s, and capable of flying missions up to one month of duration. None of it became reality. It also was a political proposal like Apollo, but this time justified/fundet because of military usage behind the smoke screen called "science". But the airforce resigned before there was any launch from Vandenberg AFB since they can go into space quicker and more efficiently.

I may sound like I don't like NASA and what it does. This is not the case at all. Everything what NASA does in the manned sector was amazing and groundbreaking from the technological and breathtaking point of view. It just is way too costly and sadly driven by politicians who have no clue and make things worse. NASA has to be open to industries, share know-how and technologies, if it really intends to do amazing long term programs in the future and do something for an entire nation and for the humankind really. If it stays a big bloated bureaucracy, dependant on fiscal politics and political programs like Constellation or the new Obama improvement for the worse, we will be always disapointed by gaps and dramatic cuts. A state never is a good businessman. NASA has to be restructured. Otherwise they never will operate a LEO system that costs only 50 million USD per seat like the Russian Soyuz. Instead it will continue to cost billions just to keep jobs and satisfy senators and its voters...

With the money already used for the AresI program structure, SpaceX could have developed Falcon 9 about 24 times. That's the difference between commercial and governmental.

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2010, 03:50:16 AM »
I see that another one fell into your trap Moonwalker. This thread may never end and may suck in everybody who participates, like a black hole  8)

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Spaceguy5

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2010, 03:53:29 AM »
What would politics be without never-ending, mindless debate?
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schmidtrock

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2010, 04:13:29 AM »
I see that another one fell into your trap Moonwalker. This thread may never end and may suck in everybody who participates, like a black hole  8)


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Haha :D

Moonwalker

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2010, 04:36:08 AM »
I see that another one fell into your trap Moonwalker. This thread may never end and may suck in everybody who participates, like a black hole  8)

Well, it's a hot topic not only in this forum. It's quite calm here actually. I've seen different places in which my voice/bandwith is very minor compared to other posts ;D  

But I can tell you when this thread will end: soon, at the latest together with the STS program ;) We will talk about historic facts of the Space Shuttle basically, not too long from now...

I don't think Obama and the others in washington really manage to get NASA on a proper track anyway.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 04:37:47 AM by Moonwalker »

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2010, 11:17:20 AM »
I see that another one fell into your trap Moonwalker. This thread may never end and may suck in everybody who participates, like a black hole  8)

Well, it's a hot topic not only in this forum. It's quite calm here actually. I've seen different places in which my voice/bandwith is very minor compared to other posts ;D  

But I can tell you when this thread will end: soon, at the latest together with the STS program ;) We will talk about historic facts of the Space Shuttle basically, not too long from now...

I don't think Obama and the others in washington really manage to get NASA on a proper track anyway.

I think that the topic of what America will/should do in space will never die, especially after many will discover the "loneliness" after the Shuttle retirement.

And we finally fully agree on something: Obama doesn't really understand that a nation needs real and tangible inspiration, not empty slogans and sweet talk.

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Moonwalker

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2010, 05:24:44 PM »
And we finally fully agree on something: Obama doesn't really understand that a nation needs real and tangible inspiration, not empty slogans and sweet talk.

Yes.

NASA has no focus anymore, and I do not see Obama giving NASA a new rational and feasible focus and inspiration. No Moon, no Mars, but instead nearby asteroids and a heavy lift launcher ::) I think that this is the worst nonsense NASA has been ever forced to do. I think the chance that it might end like Constellation is big.

The current situation of manned space flight at NASA is really serious. And I think it is time to restructure it and make it more independent from fiscal politics and changing administrations, of whom one after another had no clue, including Obama.

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2010, 05:39:12 PM »
And we finally fully agree on something: Obama doesn't really understand that a nation needs real and tangible inspiration, not empty slogans and sweet talk.

Yes.

NASA has no focus anymore, and I do not see Obama giving NASA a new rational and feasible focus and inspiration. No Moon, no Mars, but instead nearby asteroids and a heavy lift launcher ::)

Quote from Washington Post.
"In addition, Obama will outline concrete plans to send astronauts to nearby asteroids, to the Earth's moon and the moons of Mars, and to Mars itself."


For all those concerned, The Obama Administration will give NASA a budget of 6 Billion to fund new projects... In my opinion, thats plenty.
And we finally fully agree on something: Obama doesn't really understand that a nation needs real and tangible inspiration, not empty slogans and sweet talk.

Yes.

NASA has no focus anymore, and I do not see Obama giving NASA a new rational and feasible focus and inspiration. No Moon, no Mars, but instead nearby asteroids and a heavy lift launcher ::) I think that this is the worst nonsense NASA has been ever forced to do. I think the chance that it might end like Constellation is big.

The current situation of manned space flight at NASA is really serious. And I think it is time to restructure it and make it more independent from fiscal politics and changing administrations, of whom one after another had no clue, including Obama.

 >:(

Neither of you have a clue of what your talking about at this point.  I suggest ADMIN you lock this thread before it turns into a total flame war.


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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2010, 06:20:01 PM »
Lock? There is no reason to do it. No obscene language, no personal attacks, no sex :(, no racism, no hate-talk, and everything is relevant to the board and forum... (and, as Moonwalker correctly pointed out, quite civilized too).

The fact that people disagree with each other is no grounds for locking (unless they disagree with me - who is KING OF THE FORUM! - Damn! Forgot to take my medication again!)

(besides, I'm having fun watching, and so should you)  ;)

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Moonwalker

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2010, 06:25:11 PM »
For all those concerned, The Obama Administration will give NASA a budget of 6 Billion to fund new projects... In my opinion, thats plenty.

6 billion is plenty of money, yes, but not enough to fly beyond low earth orbit manned if NASAs program structure remains costly.

I suggest ADMIN you lock this thread before it turns into a total flame war.

No need to lock it. Just stop claiming that neither of us has no clue without giving a rational explanation why (it's a troll-comment) ;)

Moonwalker

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2010, 06:26:45 PM »
The fact that people disagree with each other is no grounds for locking (unless they disagree with me - who is KING OF THE FORUM! - Damn! Forgot to take my medication again!)

;D

Moonwalker

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2010, 06:28:55 PM »
But anyway, does somebody know when Obama is going deliver his speech and if there is a chance to watch it live?

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2010, 06:30:20 PM »
Maybe NASATV will show it?

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Spaceguy5

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Re: The STS program may be extended by two more years...
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2010, 06:35:28 PM »
Only granting NASA 6 billion more over 5 years? NASA still has only a little more than .5% of the federal budget <_< And that .5% goes to a lot more than *Just* the manned spaceflight programs. The government was pretty fast to dish out more than a billion for Haiti relief though. Manned spaceflight will never advance much if the government is afraid to spend money on it.
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