Ares 1X

[Moonwalker]

I have to admit that those weather issues are really annoying. Back at the Apollo days they gave a damn s.... about such narrow constraints. Also, I think they should stop it this time and try it on another day with better forecasts. Green, red, green red... The whole chase after the weather just is ridiculous.

[Moonwalker]

Scrub!

[gablau]

T-00:04:00 and holding... we are about to see history unfolding. I hope that all of you appreciate the importance and significance of this moment!

/Admin

I don't know how old you are, but I am old enough to remember the Apollo days.
The Ares 1 is nothing more than a slighty larger rocket than the Saturn V was and the capsule a slightly larger capsule than the Apollo. There in no conceptual difference. Yes, there are slight differences, but the technology is basically the same. Is it only my personal opinion? Not quite. I was watching an hour program on the NASA TV channel. On that program they even acknowledged that "we had a difficult time to find some of the information from the Apollo program.....".

I was watching/listening this morning the last couple of hours before they scrubbed for good. I have never heard such amateurish communication before. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, now wait a minute, maybe no, what do you think?, well...wait.....the airplane which is suppose to observe the weather is in the ground refueling......at around 11.15 EST: we are resuming countdown in five minutes. Then two minutes later a female voice reports that the wind is such and such, then......okay than no....., and finally the scrub.
The whole thing sounded like some high school's club getting ready to launch some balloon.

[Moonwalker]

T-00:04:00 and holding... we are about to see history unfolding. I hope that all of you appreciate the importance and significance of this moment!

/Admin

I don't know how old you are, but I am old enough to remember the Apollo days.
The Ares 1 is nothing more than a slighty larger rocket than the Saturn V was and the capsule a slightly larger capsule than the Apollo. There in no conceptual difference. Yes, there are slight differences, but the technology is basically the same. Is it only my personal opinion? Not quite. I was watching an hour program on the NASA TV channel. On that program they even acknowledged that "we had a difficult time to find some of the information from the Apollo program.....".

I was watching/listening this morning the last couple of hours before they scrubbed for good. I have never heard such amateurish communication before. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, now wait a minute, maybe no, what do you think?, well...wait.....the airplane which is suppose to observe the weather is in the ground refueling......at around 11.15 EST: we are resuming countdown in five minutes. Then two minutes later a female voice reports that the wind is such and such, then......okay than no....., and finally the scrub.
The whole thing sounded like some high school's club getting ready to launch some balloon.

If I may correct you gablau; the Ares 1 is not larger than the SaturnV. The Ares 1 is about 100 meters tall, the SaturnV was 111 meters tall. You may have a visual check here http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Saturn-V_Shuttle_Ares-I_Ares-V_comparison_%2806-2006%29.jpg

There are also huge differences between Ares and the Saturn family rather than small ones. The second stage of the Ares1 is based on External Tank technology from the Shuttle. The only difference here is the J-2X engine, originally designed and used on the second stage of the SaturnV. The most significant difference is the Ares1 first stage, which is a Shuttle-derived single solid rocket booster. Solid rocket boosters were not used on the SaturnV. And this is even the first time in the world and history that a solid rocket booster is used as a single first stage with a second stage and a manned capsule on top of it.

Orion also has not a lot in common with the Apollo Command Module, beside the exterior shape/appearance. The technology is different. For example it won't use fuel cells (it'll depend on solar power like the ISS). There won't be an EVA capability as well. Heat shield materials will be also different to Apollo. The interior also will be different to that of the Apollo Command Module, significantly. Not only because of the increased crew size but also by the paneling of the cabin and more over the rendezvous windows and the instrument panels and controls. There won't be any similarity within the interior.

All in all there are just 3 small similarities between Apollo and Ares/Orion: the J-2X engine, the exterior shape of Orion and the launch abort system on top. Everything else is totally different and basically based on the Shuttle. Not to mention the AresV...

Regarding the "high school's club": did you ever see the launch preparation of Alan Shepards Freedom 7 flight in 1961?

Todays weather limitations, launch procedures and decisions are highly professional for both the Shuttle and Ares, performed by well skilled persons. Especially the weather constraints already had been significantly changed after the lightning stroke during the ascent phase of Apollo 12 in 1969, which caused a serious telemetry malfunction and nearly an abort during ascent.

[MDBenson]

I can only agree with Moonwalker, especially regards the latter point abut the launch control decisions. If you think predicting the weather is easy then you are sadly mistaken. Even with radar, airborne obs and a weather team watching the sky it's still not easy to give a cast iron prediction of conditions, especially when so many factors have to line up. Doubly more so in Eastern Florida!!

Also consider what is happening here before you criticise the repeated launch attempts and hold-offs. This is an unmanned test flight, which it is important to launch correctly and into safe atmospheric conditions, BUT it's unmanned and isn't scheduled for any particular orbit pattern. That means they keep trying until the window closes on them. If it'd have been a Shuttle launch it'd have scrubbed once and that'd have been it until tomorrow.

Also, put yourself in the shoes of the members of the launch control teams before you criticise them. This was a unique instance where they had to think on their feet and retry stuff as quickly as they could to get a launch in weather windows. You can't expect people to magic a weather prediction out of nowhere, they need facts and data to make an informed prediction. Personally I think 20 secs to do a weather prediction based on radar and aerial obs reports alone is pretty impressive. Hey, these people are only human, they are bound to um and err a bit, especially as it wasn't an emergency or a time critical launch (other than the weather).

I know it was a little frustrating compared to a STS launch, which seems to well orchestrated, but it all gets a bit seat of the pants when you are doing stuff like this on the fly, trying again and again to get a window of opportunity to launch. I'm pretty sure if they did anything like this in the 50s and 60s it was probably even more confused than this was, if only because they didn't have 50 years of practice behind them!

Give em a break, eh?

[Moonwalker]

The only thing I'm honestly complaining about is the decision of launch day. If there is a 40% or even 30% chance of launch due to weather constraints, I wouldn't do an attempt. In most cases there is a scrub anyway. But if there is a 50%+ chance, it's worth it I think. Tomorrow we get a 60% chance which quite likely is going to enable us to witness an amazing show for the first time since 1981, after Apollo had been cut in 1975.

The volks at NASA are doing amazing work. And those people at the cape perform just perfectly all the time. NASA represents the power of a great nation, no matter if there are different voices in the world, especially in my country sadly (Germany). I'm absolutely behind NASA and the USA. That country has a significant positive impact on the life of people all over the world...

PS: and have a look how amazingly NASA has made progress on Ares. They are actually well prepared to build and operate that beautiful new launch vehicle. Let's hope congress and Obama will give them required money shots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXpoLe7nFI

[Admin]

The only thing I'm honestly complaining about is the decision of launch day. If there is a 40% or even 30% chance of launch due to weather constraints, I wouldn't do an attempt. In most cases there is a scrub anyway. But if there is a 50%+ chance, it's worth it I think. Tomorrow we get a 60% chance which quite likely is going to enable us to witness an amazing show for the first time since 1981, after Apollo had been cut in 1975.

The volks at NASA are doing amazing work. And those people at the cape perform just perfectly all the time. NASA represents the power of a great nation, no matter if there are different voices in the world, especially in my country sadly (Germany). I'm absolutely behind NASA and the USA. That country has a significant positive impact on the life of people all over the world...

PS: and have a look how amazingly NASA has made progress on Ares. They are actually well prepared to build and operate that beautiful new launch vehicle. Let's hope congress and Obama will give them required money shots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXpoLe7nFI

Yes,

People must be "man" enough to acknowledge and respect the achievements of ANY nation w/o any racial, nationalistic, religious etc. prejudice. Unfortunately this is not the general attitude in the world these days, as more and more become blindly, inhumanly and suicidally political, guided by greed, racism, anarchism and by malicious ulterior motives. But this is NOT a subject for this forum, so I'll stop here.

Looking back at how the entire world was captivated by the Apollo program, I can only say that even thugh NASA is an American organization, it has given to humanity a lot more than the hordes of greedy politicians spewing empty slogans, hiding ugly truths and facts behind suicidal "political correctness", and brainwashing masses into imbecile pulp, ready to go to the streets and bark whatever they are told to.

With all its shortcomings which are "natural' for such a sizeable organization, and with goals reaching for the stars, literally, NASA has my full support, whatever the endeavor and whatever the cost (human life not included).

NASA represents what is best in humankind. I assume that ESA is not far behind, as for the Russian Space Program, I don't have much info on which to base my opinion so basically my I shape it by the amount of cooperation they do with NASA and ESA.

Rant mode off... 

/Admin

[Admin]

Another day, another Ares 1X launch attempt. We are now at T-00:04:00 and with about 35 minutes remaining, launch is in about 40 minutes from now.

Fingers crossed, as we see history unfolding (take #2)

/Admin

[bjbeard]

History?? This is a giant step BACKWARDS! Instead of three there are to be four astronauts making like spam in a can once again...

I say keep the Discovery and Endeavor flying and build the EDS at the ISS. That would be a major step forward.

Anyone read the Augustine panels report to NASA? Intersting stuff, especially option 4B!

[Admin]

Well, that's a matter of opinion, but it is history nevertheless.

WWII was also history although it pushed humanity back by one or two generations, depending on which side you were 

/Admin

[Moonwalker]

History?? This is a giant step BACKWARDS! Instead of three there are to be four astronauts making like spam in a can once again...

That AresI-X is a step backwards is an individual opinion. That AresI-X is an historic event is a fact. It's the first time since 1981 that a new potentially manned system is going to be launched, consisting of a single solid rocket booster first stage, which is another historic event, + AresI is the tallest manned launcher of the 21st century for now, which is another historic fact.

I say keep the Discovery and Endeavor flying and build the EDS at the ISS. That would be a major step forward.

Keeping the Space Shuttle flying won't reduce the gap, and won't also bring NASA closer to the moon i.e. sooner out of low earth orbit.

Building the EDS at the ISS is not an option at all. The ISS quite likely isn't going to survive until 2020, less than ever past 2020.

Anyone read the Augustine panels report to NASA? Intersting stuff, especially option 4B!

The report is interesting but doesn't basically decide NASA's future. Obama quite likely isn't going to base his decisions on the report "only".

As had been pointed out by some congress members and other persons already, the report does not entirely meet the goals of the USA and NASA of returning to the Moon and go beyond. The report doesn't make any serious suggestions, nor does it offer improvement suggestions for the current program. But the key finding of the report is that NASA needs more funding and support in order to accomplish Constellation. Regarding Norman Augustine, Constellation i.e. Ares is well achievable by proper funding. Even more: Augustine says that AresI-X is an important step, even in case AresI isn't going to enter operational status in the future.

[Phixit]

History?? This is a giant step BACKWARDS! Instead of three there are to be four astronauts making like spam in a can once again...

Just a note, the Orion is designed to carry 6 astronauts to the ISS. Four is for lunar missions, or I guess anything past LEO. I think it is a misconception to keep comparing Orion to Apollo. It is the same concept, but it definitely is a new generation of spacecraft. But, I digress because moonwalker already covered all of this. Also, not a big fan of the saying "spam in a can". I think it doesn't give proper credit to the courage and skill of all the astronauts in Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and Skylab.

I think what people should keep in mind is this is a vehicle designed for a whole different purpose than the space shuttle. I love the shuttle, obviously, but it is a different beast. The only similar mission between Orion and the shuttle will be ISS trips. If funding was not a factor I would say keep the shuttle going and build the Orion, but we don't live in my fairy tail world. I'm honestly torn about our path forward, but I just hope we stay in space and not back out completely.

Anyway, back to the launch. Still T-00:04:00 and holding. Hopefully we get to see a launch today!

PS: I noticed I said "we" in my post. I live in the US, so that's what I meant. But, my personal opinion is the path NASA should take forward would include international cooperation.

[Admin]

We, at Exciting Simulations love the STS program (can you tell? LOL), nevertheless we love Space Exploration more. Ares I-X is a landmark along the Space Exploration timeline and we're lucky to being able to watch it in REAL TIME on NASATV (or real TVs).

Lay back and enjoy the moment, regardless of opinion. Once we went to the skies, there is nothing to hold us, humans, back (except for our suicidal tendencies ON Earth -  )

Go Ares Go!

/Admin

[Admin]

...and WEATHER is still a problem. Another at least 1:15 delay! Next estimate is 10:30 EDT!

/Admin

[Phixit]

Once we went to the skies, there is nothing to hold us, humans, back

Except maybe clouds!